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jhlurie
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posted on 2-26-2004 at 06:04 AM
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Keywords feature
Recently, while adjusting some song genres in eJukebox something occured to me.
Often the song genre field is used as kind of a keyword to describe the type or mood of the song. Some of us get creative with ID3v2 tags and sort of
invent our own super-descriptive genres, and others stick strictly to established genres like "Rock" or "R&B" or
"Classical".
Even when we DO settle on a genre, often songs cross borders and more than one applies. So again, either we invent some kind of new cross polinated
genre, or we settle.
I like the way Allmusic.com handles this problem, and I think it can be adapted to eJ. IN their music listings, they have two seperate fields for
each artist and/or album. One for Genre (they allow mutiple, even though ID3 tags don't) and one for what they call "tones" (Brooding,
Cerebral, Literate, Sugary, Energetic, Sexy, Fun, Intense, etc., are examples).
Because ID3v2 really only still allows ONE genre, I suggest that eJ create a second field, tucked away in some supplemental place, that stores
whatever selection of keywords we want to apply to a song. The keywords can be a free-form field where as many extra genre descriptions OR
"Tone" mood descriptions as you want can be added. Then either the search engine or the Custom Mode can be used to group songs in more
complex, and yet more relevant ways. You can arbitrarily declare a song to be "Happy" and "Sexy" both and arrange to play only
the "Happy" ones or the "Sexy" ones--or both--with very little effort.
Reactions? If this is technically feasible I can't see a downside. I mean people can always choose NOT to use it. It shouldn't inflate
the MP3 file that much--especially if some limits are placed on it (a character legnth or a maximum number of keywords).
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Pirk
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posted on 2-26-2004 at 02:48 PM
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I like your idea jhlurie... i also would like the genres be more "customisable". Personnaly often i use several words to describe my albums
but i tend to create new ones too often even though i would like to regroup my similar albums. Unwanted effect...
The only downside i can see in your idea is that will not be standard, if a specific field is used for that. I would prefer my genres and
"tones" stay usable with any other mp3 software...
But i think nothing prevent you to already use the standard id3v2 genre field to put your personal "tones": Whether the genre and tone(s) be
in one or several fields, it's eJukebox - or any other software - which should be able to exploit intelligently the words it finds in the genre
field.
Moreover, we can already do that in the CUSTOM play mode, and do what you request:
| Quote: | | You
can arbitrarily declare a song to be "Happy" and "Sexy" both and arrange to play only the "Happy" ones or the
"Sexy" ones--or both--with very little effort |
That's already great!
I just would like the filters we have in the custom play mode be also usable in the artistlist and the albumlist but only for the genres and
years.
I mean i would like to be able to DISPLAY i.e. all (and only thoses ones) my "Rock" and "Happy" or "Sexy" and not
"Sad" and year "200" Albums and Artists.
The number of criteria could be also increased a bit compared with the custom mode in order to be able to display together i.e. the Rock, Metal, Ska
and Trip Hop... and "Happy" or "Sexy" and not "Sad" and year "200" Albums & Artists!!
I think that would make sense for those of us who have a lot of albums and artists (now i have more than 10000 songs). We could lighten eJukebox
depending on circumstances or mood and also see again some albums swamped because they are too many artists and albums displayed at the same time!
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Audiosoft
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posted on 2-27-2004 at 05:53 AM
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eJukebox's New Custom List Generator
| Quote: |
Because ID3v2 really only still allows ONE genre, I suggest that eJ create a second field, tucked away in some supplemental place, that stores
whatever selection of keywords we want to apply to a song
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I think we can probally use the id3 comment field for this...and have that accessible in eJukebox's editor and via
eJukebox's New Custom Mode/Listing ability.
If you are interested in helping us speed up the addition of the Filter based Custom Listing Ability to eJukebox you can help by creating a web page
with all the options (using html forms) for selecting complex genre year combinations and everything else you would like to see.... then we will link
it all up and make the web page usable within eJukebox to set Custom PlayMode....Custom Artist listing...Custom Album listing... Custom Songlisting -
all from the same webpage based options screen within eJukebox. We could also probably use it for eJukebox2Web listings as well.
You can post your creations in here and/or email zip files to us at designs@audiosoft.net
Thanks for your help....if you are good at design you can create a cool look for your options page...but that is not required...we want to atleast get
an idea of all the options that will be needed so we can create a nice way to modify them to get a extensive custom listing in eJukebox.
 Audiosoft |
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Pirk
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posted on 2-27-2004 at 10:57 AM
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Ah ah! That's a very interesting challenge for us Audiosoft...
I haved already posted here a few ideas i haved seen in other jukebox which have already treated this aspect... I mean in the form of a table where
you can check the genres and years you want to display... That could be a good start!
But Audiosoft, you say us you may use the comment field for the extended genre descriptions: the only problem with this is i already use this field to
put some comments! I mean a biography of the artist or a description of the album content, even if unfortunately they are not displayed in eJukebox...
I don't think the comment field should be used exclusively to put a few keywords, unless it exist in the id3 norm another field where i could
move my comments... but i don't think so?
I don't understand where is the problem if you use the existing standard id3v2 genre field to put these additional keywords since the version 2
of id3 tags allow that! Why don't you want to use it??
Otherwise, thank you very much for your plan concerning a such feature i expected since a long time!
I will try to help you to build the new web page, at least by suggesting a few content ideas...
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Pirk
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posted on 2-27-2004 at 02:09 PM
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Here is my first suggestion of a filter for eJukebox: http://www.audiosoft.net/forums/viewthread.php?tid=339
I think it could be easily turned into a web page! and also be optimized a bit... 
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Pirk
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posted on 2-27-2004 at 08:08 PM
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And now my web page!
Attachment: Music styles.htm (20.1kb)
This file has been downloaded 1481 times
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Pirk
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posted on 2-27-2004 at 08:25 PM
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And a screenshot...
Pirk has attached this image:
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Demnos
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posted on 2-27-2004 at 09:19 PM
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Very cool Pirk!!
Does it make sense to add to the blue selection box (where you have Year, Rating etc.):
- Last Played (less than x weeks ago, more than x weeks ago)
- Playcount (number of times played)
?
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jhlurie
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posted on 2-27-2004 at 11:09 PM
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pirk
The only downside i can see in your idea is that will not be standard, if a specific field is used for that. I would prefer my genres and
"tones" stay usable with any other mp3 software... |
I still think there would have to be a PRIMARY genre selected, to fit the standard genre ID3 field. The supplemental genres and tones would be just
that... supplemental.
It's not a perfect solution, but it allows SOME compatibility.
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Pirk
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posted on 2-27-2004 at 11:44 PM
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Thanks Demnos!
I'm happy you appreciate my work...
| Quote: | -
Last Played (less than x weeks ago, more than x weeks ago)
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That's a very good idea!
| Quote: | -
Playcount (number of times played)
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Well, i think that's equivalent to my Popularity interval choice.
And i've just a new idea! I think we could also add:
- Songs added last 24 hours, week, month, disable.
jhlurie,
The standard genre ID3 (V2) field ALLOW the user to put multiple genres and tones.
After that, either the mp3 software (eJukebox or any other program...) only exploit the primary genre (I mean the first word it find), or it could
also exploit the following ones!!
That's already planned and normalized like this in the ID3 V2 specifications...
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Pirk
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posted on 2-28-2004 at 01:53 AM
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And finally my last creation 
Pirk has attached this image:
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Pirk
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posted on 2-28-2004 at 02:12 AM
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I've forgotten the html version...
Attachment: Music styles_2.htm (24.08kb)
This file has been downloaded 1472 times
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Pirk
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posted on 2-28-2004 at 02:12 PM
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A better version...
Pirk has attached this image:
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Pirk
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posted on 2-28-2004 at 02:19 PM
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And its html file...
Attachment: Music styles 6.htm (16.92kb)
This file has been downloaded 1585 times
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Pirk
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posted on 2-28-2004 at 06:02 PM
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Another one... The best of course!
Pirk has attached this image:
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Pirk
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posted on 2-28-2004 at 06:03 PM
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Html...
Attachment: Music styles 7.htm (15.11kb)
This file has been downloaded 1476 times
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jhlurie
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posted on 4-14-2004 at 07:54 AM
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Any more thought on this? At the very least, even without the extra bells and whistles suggested by Pirk, the basic idea seems easy enough to
implement--supposing, in fact, it can be done without stepping on whatever current description the user has.
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junk
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posted on 9-15-2004 at 07:10 PM
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I wish for this as well; Pirk's example suits my needs quite well.
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Spazz
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posted on 9-15-2004 at 07:29 PM
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What I'm still hoping for is for a standardized rating field. Something I can port ratings to and from different programs with. I've been
trying to pull the ratings from ejukebox with winamp, mediamonkey and tag/rename but I just can't do it for some reason.
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Fishy
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posted on 9-16-2004 at 01:27 AM
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Do we want compatiblity before innovations?
I belive audiosoft has "hacked" the tagfields quite a lot. Concerning ratings and the compilations marks. And sure hopes that they will
continue doing so...
Ej had ratings way before winamp had it.. Nullsoft introduced it in winamp 5.0...I laught about reading the Nullsoft newsletter, introducing this as a
new feature.. Why? Because I had this feature one year before Nullsoft introduced it. Because I was introduced to ejukebox.
Who then should be responsible for compatiblity of ratings?I would say: Maybe this is Nullsoft's responsiblity, since they stole the concept
anyhow?
Why should Winamp be set as the standard, even when they introduce things way after others have? That kind of thinking is the reason why we use
Microsoft systems and a lot of terrible standards today.. Being the most well know program and the biggest in industry shouldn't really be
equivalient of being the one that should set standards all the time.
At least I don't think so..
I sure hope that Audiosoft will keep up their innovative ways of doing things. Even if tiny companies like Nullsoft, Apple and Musicmatch can't
follow, before later on
However, there are extreamly interesting things which can be extracted from ID3 information .... Comments, label etc... Would love to see ej use this
information in interesting ways and in addition use the current implemented information in an completly non fuzzy manner...
The stuff that Pirk is introducing in this thread is indeed interesting and is a concept which deserves implementation?
(sorry for this long post got really carried away...)
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Spazz
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posted on 9-16-2004 at 02:09 AM
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Fishy
I belive audiosoft has "hacked" the tagfields quite a lot. Concerning ratings and the compilations marks. And sure hopes that they will
continue doing so...
Ej had ratings way before winamp had it.. Nullsoft introduced it in winamp 5.0...I laught about reading the Nullsoft newsletter, introducing this as a
new feature.. Why? Because I had this feature one year before Nullsoft introduced it. Because I was introduced to ejukebox.
Who then should be responsible for compatiblity of ratings?I would say: Maybe this is Nullsoft's responsiblity, since they stole the concept
anyhow?
Why should Winamp be set as the standard, even when they introduce things way after others have? That kind of thinking is the reason why we use
Microsoft systems and a lot of terrible standards today.. Being the most well know program and the biggest in industry shouldn't really be
equivalient of being the one that should set standards all the time.
At least I don't think so..
I sure hope that Audiosoft will keep up their innovative ways of doing things. Even if tiny companies like Nullsoft, Apple and Musicmatch can't
follow, before later on
However, there are extreamly interesting things which can be extracted from ID3 information .... Comments, label etc... Would love to see ej use this
information in interesting ways and in addition use the current implemented information in an completly non fuzzy manner...
The stuff that Pirk is introducing in this thread is indeed interesting and is a concept which deserves implementation?
(sorry for this long post got really carried away...) |
Though it would be nice if there was a standardized rating field it's kind of a pipe dream (and I never said who should set it.) What I more
wanted was the fields to be accessable through other programs. I remember awhile back Audiosoft posted what the fields were and what format the
ratings were stored as but none of the programs I used can get to them.
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junk
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posted on 9-16-2004 at 02:44 PM
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What format is the winamp ratings in? I mean, if it is a ten-point scale, such as with EJ (due to the half stars), there ought to be a way to make
them compatible. EJ would also feature from this, since people who go from using the new Winamp to EJ would still have their ratings intact.
And also, if winamp's tagging becomes a widespread standard, it would mean that the tags we set in EJ would also be readable on the future's
portable mp3 players, mobile phone/PDA's etc. Most of us will be carrying one of these babies in the future, one way or another.
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Spazz
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posted on 9-16-2004 at 04:53 PM
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Winamp doesn't actually write ratings to the tags(my one [Censored] with winamps ratings system) and the format is 1-5. I never use half
stars and the like so I'd just be happy with a way to view ejukebox ratings as just another tag field. Could easily rate that way.
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Audiosoft
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posted on 9-17-2004 at 07:24 PM
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The EJ star ratings are stored as 0-100 value in a User Defined (TXXX) ID3v2 tag field labeled "asnrating".
10 = 1/2 star
100 = 5 Stars
BTW the Custom List Generator is in the works for v4.0. The HTML forms from Pirk is great but much works still needs to be done including modifying it
to use a CSS stylesheet for skinning.
A bit off topic:
Right now we are working on updating the eJukebox editor...which will probably make it in before v4.0. So far we have managed to separate it from
eJukebox's window so you can drag the editor anywhere on screen...and leave it open all the time if you want. Fixed a bug where the changes were
sometimes not saved to the database when the Track# was empty. Improved the editors speed ALLOT. Added a way to toggle/expand the Lyrics View. Drop
Lyrics text in the editor. Added a button that allows you to preview ID3 encoded cover images full size. Plus updated the look and effects to make it
easier to understand. We also updated the look of the Rename input boxes and the "No Cover Found" dialog...which now autocloses after 5
seconds and gives a tip on using the "Info" button to manually find the Cover Image on the web and Drag and Drop it in the editor.
We are thinking about possibly using the Lyrics area for "ID3 comments" as well by adding a tab to switch between lyrics and comments. Plus
hopefully add a spot to input multiple genres/tones. Here is a screenshot of what we have to far. The editor on the right was added to the screenshot
with Photoshop to show the expanded lyrics view.
Audiosoft has attached this image:
Audiosoft |
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Pirk
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posted on 9-18-2004 at 12:33 AM
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Ahh... Great news!
I wait for the Custom List Generator impatiently!
That is excellent if you have improved the editors speed! And you have
separated it too!
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Fishy
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posted on 9-18-2004 at 01:07 AM
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The new editor looks great, audiosoft! Really smells like sweet fruit.. French and american ones.. Too bad for tag&rename
Really like the idea of making the comments/reviews of albums available... As well as a zoom mode for the albumimages...
Would it be possible to include a 'label' field as well. Not just for the editor but in the songlist and autoplaymodes as well, or would
that be a lot of hazzle?
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Audiosoft
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posted on 10-27-2005 at 01:02 AM
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I have made allot of progress on the Custom List Generator this week. It works but it is not done yet .... so far it can output the custom list to the
albumlist, songlist or a playlist file. I am still working on implementing its use for Custom AutoPlay Mode and Copy Files and I still need to
implement saving and loading of Custom List profiles. I may just release this as an entry on the Tools menu in v3.99 for use "as is" until I finish
the rest up for v4.0. Also, I plan to add a "Styles/Tones" section for v4.0.
P.S. If anyone thinks of a better title for it than "Custom List Generator" let me know.
Thanks for the HTML inspiration Pirk ... it ended up being much easier to
do it in code rather than HTML. Plus I realized it would not be possible to add allot of genres, tones and artists (it would require a ton of
checkboxes) if it was in HTML - so I came up with this...
Audiosoft has attached this image:
Audiosoft |
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schonne
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posted on 10-27-2005 at 02:47 AM
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looking great
Can I just say that I'm so happy to see Audiosoft back on the job! The changes look great!
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Pirk
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posted on 10-27-2005 at 02:43 PM
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Splendid work Audiosoft!!
I adore the way you have improved my outline. Everything is there! And even more... (I completly forgot Artists exclusion!)
Your add/remove lists for genres and Artists is an excellent idea! That will be very handy.
Your interface looks very good even if it is not in HTML. I think that, for this kind of tools, the best functionality possible is the more important
for the moment...
I'm still longing to start to play with it!
Keep up your great work.
Pirk |
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Pirk
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posted on 10-27-2005 at 04:02 PM
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Better title suggestion:
Maybe "Music selection..." would be better?
Pirk |
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